TF2 Maps (Actual Size)

TF2 Maps (Actual Size)

Dispenser going up! [music] [music fades into mysterious sounds] [new music starts playing] I’m the Uncle Dengalab. I love maps, and this video game is a true treasure trove. After the classes, the maps make TF2 what it is. Without a map, you wouldn’t have anything to play on. So yeah, maps are kind of a big deal. But… how big? How big exactly are these maps? Like, how much space do you have to play on each map compared to one another? Well, I think it’s an interesting question. Especially since people seem to attach the word BIG or SMALL to maps just based on what they assume, but in the past, I don’t think anyone has actually gone in and measured the actual size of the maps relative to each other. So, that’s what I set out to do. I wanted to see if it was possible to measure the actual size of every map in TF2, and compare them to each other. I wanted stats to tell me how big the average king of the hill map is compared to the average attack/defend map. I wanted to know, what’s the smallest map? What’s the biggest map? Which maps are less spacious than they might appear? Things like that. But keep in mind, I’m not interested in finding out the size of an entire map. Maps in TF2 are very different from one another in the way that they’re constructed. Not only in terms of the layout, but how they’re decorated, how much inaccessible space is used for backgrounds, basically things that don’t affect the gameplay at all. What I was most Interested in obtaining was the size in any relative unit of the accessible Playable space in which players are intended to walk around of every official core map. This essentially means that I wanted to find a reliable, preferably fast way of measuring something similar to the square footage of the 2D plane for every map, and compare what I would call their “actual sizes”, side-by-side. So, how would someone go about doing this? I obviously can’t just get the data I’m looking for by only comparing the file size of the maps themselves. I’m looking for something much more specific than that. Because I have basically no experience with how maps are even created, the first person I turn to for advice was UEAKCrash, a senior staff member on, and the creator of a multitude of maps, such as Probed and Moonshine. Crash immediately mentioned something very helpful to me, which was that something called the Navigation mesh would be a great way to harness the area in which players are intended to be able to access. A navmesh, in simple terms, is basically a thin layer of boxes that are positioned just on top of the floor of a map which is used by bots for their pathfinding calculations. This information is stored in a nav file that you can generate by using the command nav_generate, Which stores the file in the maps folder on your PC. So right away this seemed very promising. I figured I would be able to load up a map, make a nav file, and compare the size of those files in bytes to determine The size of the playable space relative to each other. Most maps’ nav files seem to be pretty understandable. Frontier is around 1500 Kilobytes, badwater is around a thousand, upward is almost ten thousand- wait- That can’t be right- I’m no scientist, but upward is definitely not ten times larger in playable surface area than badwater is. Almost right away, I had run into an obvious snag. Turns out, the navmesh Can be on just about any piece of ground. Even places that are completely out of bounds with a kill box above it. Upward in particular has such a large nav file because the death pits all over the map are still completely Walkable, if you can somehow survive the torment of standing inside the kill box, of course. And who knows how many Instances of this setup are found on other maps, so right away Comparing the size of the nav files was not going to be a reliable method of measuring the size of walkable areas, because some walkable Areas that are technically walkable are not actually walkable. So I started to ask around going deeper into the mapping community asking people if they had thought my experiment was even possible. At some point, I found myself in the chat room of one of Freyja’s mapping streams, and a mapper named 14bit mentioned and demonstrated to me that you can use a command to basically link the individual Navigation mesh tiles to each other based on what is intended by the developers to be accessible. This method which I’ll just refer to as A nav flood turned out to be exactly what I was looking for. 14bit even provided me with a manual method in which I could determine the size of all of the linked nav mesh tiles in hammer units, which is a universal unit of measurement in source games. I’ve basically been handed away to do exactly what I wanted to do! But, I was still not ready to start measuring. I took the concept of the nav flood process to my good friend and extremely competent TF2 coder Pazer and asked him if there would be an easier way to obtain the size of the nav mesh than the manual method that 14bit had proposed. He said that he could cook something up using a modified version of his spectator plug-in that he’s developed called Casting Essentials, and within an hour he’d given me directions on how to use his plugin to automatically determine the playable space of a map in kilo hammer units squared. So, for the next hour or so, I measured. I loaded up every single official core map in the game and determined the size of the playable area. After I’d completed my research, before I went to bed that evening, I messaged the developer of, a website that researches and maintains a library of statistics across all walks of TF2 life. In fact, if you’re as intrigued about TF2 stats as I am, I highly recommend checking them out. I asked if they could take the data I provided and organize it into an easy to read set of graphs, and the next morning, I had woken up to this. A comprehensive display of every core map in TF2, listed by their actual size. So now that you know the story of how I obtained this data, Let’s just jump in and take a look at what we got here. Overall, the average size of a TF2 map from the casual core maps section is around 18 kilo hammer units squared. The average size of a TF2 map that is played in both official competitive mode and third-party competitive is slightly smaller at 17.25. You can also convert the khu squared units into real-life measurements, if you were curious about how big a TF2 map would typically be in real life. But I’m not gonna do that for every map. [end of manual CC] But let’s just take a closer look at the size of the maps Compared to ones within their own Category of game modes starting with the attack defend Maps only we can already find our smallest core map in the entire game Junction which is a tiny? 7.4. Khu squared more than twice as small as the average T of to map the biggest attack defend map is Egypt at twenty five Point six which is to be expected since it’s a three-stage map and by that logic You’d expect decibel to be next but instead it’s actually Mercenary Park at number two with an area of twenty-two point four which is kind of surprising next is dustbowl of course But at a measly twenty point three it’s only slightly larger than your average map its Statistics like this that remind me that just because a map is long doesn’t mean it’s actually big dust balls tight corridors Are what actually make it a much smaller map compare that to the wide open? often vertical stretches of land that you typically find on Egypt moving on to the capture-the-flag maps I will admit that I was honestly expecting something different But it turns out that your typical CTF map is pretty tiny with landfall being the biggest one at 13.6 khu squared But wait with the recent blue moon update adding the old maps of CTF sawmill and CTF well back into the casual core map rotation landfall has been absolutely blown out of the water by both of these maps with well becoming the biggest CTF map at 23 on to the next game mode control point which we seem to have an abundance of at first glance But keep in mind that control point comes in all different shapes and sizes and in particular Powerhouse is the predictable winner of the smallest control point map award at 14 KH you squared, but well well well looks like we found our biggest map so far with not well but the recent leery added 5 Gorge at 32 kilo hammer units squared to be fair 5 gorge isn’t so much a big map as It is just thick and I don’t mean like thick like how I’m thick I mean like there’s just a lot of wide-open useless space going on on 5 gorge which makes it even bigger than CP well another massive control point map But other than five Gorge and well the sizes of most 5 CP maps seem to be pretty consistent Sitting in the 17 to 22 range Let’s move on to the king of the hill maps which I think everyone can assume are the smallest types of maps in the game And you’d be right. They’re all pretty much about as big as a CTF map There’s just a lot more of them the biggest one being sawmill at fourteen point nine which personally I didn’t expect But I can understand just based on the huge open areas outside of spawn the next one down is Sweden which I personally was expecting To be massive because you can pretty much stand on every roof And there’s an entire area to the side of the point that no one ever really goes over to but still contributes to the girth of this map and I was honestly expecting harvest to be the smallest COFF map But I was stunned to learned that viaduct is actually a bit smaller at 9.3 Compared to harvest at ten point seven I suppose since harvest is technically flat all over and viaduct is sectioned off by Buildings and barriers this comparison does make sense it ends up being a great demonstration of the power of walls And how they often end up making? Areas seem much bigger than they actually are and then the last set of maps sorted by game mode are the payload Maps right away You can see that as big maps Go there are none that even come close to the massive size of enclosure for a map that Apparently houses giant dinosaurs, I suppose They certainly got the scaling right, but damn dude this map is far and away the biggest map in the game at over 40 Akh you squared Obviously you’d assume the three-stage payload maps are bound to be the largest because it’s essentially three smaller maps in one but even if you Were make just the last stage of enclosure its own map it would still be bigger than dustbowl in terms of playable surface area even Thunder Mountain a three-stage payload map with a ton of open space while pretty darn big at 38.4 is still Second to enclosure by a lot as far as the three-stage payload maps go actually it seems that enclosure and thunder mountain are the only Two out of four that are considered to be super sized the other two gold Russian who do are actually pretty average in size compared To the rest of payload maps at 25 and 21 respectively once again, you can blame their long track But small surface area on the abundance of corridors and tunnels as well as the fact that maps like Gold Rush And who do make economic use of spawn rooms by combining them with the next stages while maps like Thunder Mountain enclosure have each of the stages completely separate from each other I found it an interesting that frontier was around the same size at the smaller payload Maps like bad water and upward since I had always assumed that frontier was a Pretty large map and I was also caught off guard by how comparatively tiny barn blitzes when put up alongside its piers at a pitiful 14.8 But at the end of the day, it’s the most interesting to me How similar in size a lot of the maps from different game modes are something You’d never be able to accurately Guess based on just playing them alone For instance sawmill and barn blitz are pretty much the exact same size bad water and upward are slightly smaller than a lot of 5cp maps like badlands and snake water And you can fit the smallest map Junction into the biggest map enclosure Six and a half times over I decided to only include the core Maps in this data Because those are the maps people typically like to play But I’ll throw up on screen a few measurements that I took later on were the more popular Alternative game modes just in case anyone is curious overall this little project came from my personal peeking Curiosity on the subject, and I didn’t have any intent of making a video about it when it first started looking into it But after gathering and inspecting the data I thought it was intriguing enough to let you guys in on my nerdy experiments, so thanks so much for watching guys I hope it was interesting to hear about my little experiment But before you go make sure to check out all my other stuff. I have a Twitter Abba twitch channel I have a discord I have a patreon of a big old page full of merchandise dude get your Get yourself an uncle danger for pete’s sake I’m gonna be adding a lot more designs to this shop over time So keep a lookout for that I’ll definitely keep you guys in the loop about that though and support my sponsor market place TF They sell pretty much any item for cheaper than the steam marketplace or better look at my shop I’m selling this unusual Tod for 15% off isn’t that crazy? And if you want to buy some keys just make sure you use the code uncle a check out when you buy ten of them To get another key for free. It’s a pretty good deal alright roll the outro

100 thoughts on “TF2 Maps (Actual Size)

  1. Before you ask, yes I'm going to be making a video about the Short Circuit since it was updated last week to be a freakin Mega Man gun. Uploading that video will take some time since I'm waiting on a few possible bug fixes and generally just getting a good feel for how to use it effectively, so thanks for your patience. Hopefully this video holds ya'll over in the meantime. 🙂

  2. Upward is actully not that big its an moutain base in the desert. blue spawn is right beside the final point Actully

  3. (the maps are extremely small, but they have a skybox area which is an extremely small area projected in the sky to make the background decoration. the max map size for map devs is about the size of the fortnite map.)


  5. Look buddy. I'm an engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?" Becouse that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems, for instance: how am I going to stop some mean mother Hubbard from tearing me a structurally superfluous behind? The answer, use a gun, and if that don't work… Use more gun. Take for instance this heavy caliber tripod mounted lil' old number designed by me, built by me, and you best hope… Not pointed at you.

  6. I realize this is a year old but youtube recomendations are weird like that.

    how could you not measure the best map cp_orange?

  7. Can you do one for orange, and achievement engineer? Maybe some other popular community maps?
    Alternative maps?

  8. I would just like to know if you considered all the flat walkable area that you complained before, and add up all the space from all the maps, would it be as big as your typical openworld game?

  9. "I'm the Uncledanegolab. I love maps." rapidly smashes like too many times for the system to process

  10. It'd be interesting to see which ones are bigger in terms of volume, as different maps have higher skyboxes

  11. Listen here boeh you gonna show me the man who has created 2fort and I will find him and I will kill him

  12. when I lose on sujin, I just use the thermal thruster to hide in the area the "pretty much no-one goes to"

  13. Imagine walking in on dane and seeing him placing a ruler on his computer screen to trying to measure the map sizes

  14. Me before he mentioned ueak:
    "use the frickin nav mesh"
    Also Uncle Dane acknowledged Hydro?
    This video is immediately perfect

  15. I just realized, if any of Dane's siblings/siblings in-law have a kid, he would be called Uncle Dane irl. (sound of everyone's collective minds imploding)

  16. Almost 1 million views on this one. Also Uncle Dane if you see this can you please unban me from your Discord? I'm sorry for saying joe joe is bad. I won't do it again. I miss the server. I miss having easy access to the whole community and also asking you questions. Please consider it. Thank you.

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